Graham Slee 先生的一篇科普文章 (关于电容,煲机)
Graham Slee先生的一篇科普文章.此公文笔有些花哨,不是很"直白". 我大致翻译了一下. (难保有误译,欢迎指正!)
Introduction 前言
Most people realize that it takes two wires to make a light bulb work.
大多数知道两根电线才能点亮一个灯泡.
Few realize that it takes two or three wires to make an electronic circuit work.
很少人意识到要两根或三根电线才能使一个电路工作.
Let’s just concentrate on the two wires – three just makes it harder to explain.
先让我们先只关心两根电线的事. 三根解释起来更复杂些.
Across these two wires will be a voltage of 3 to 36 volts, depending on the design, for a preamp circuit, and in the region of 80 to 100 volts for most solid state audio power amps. For tube amps the voltage can be in the region 200 to 500 volts.
穿过这两根电线有3-36伏特的电压,具体电压数取决于前级放大器的电路设计. 如果是晶体管后级放大器,则需要80-100伏特的电压. 假如是胆机功放则电压是在200-500伏特的范围.
The type of voltage is DC (direct current). In most cases it is derived from the AC (alternating current) mains by means of a transformer and rectifier. This produces a waveform of one polarity operating at a frequency twice that of the mains supply. What we need is a waveform-less voltage, otherwise we’d hear the twice mains frequency waveform (and a lot of distortion). This frequency is reduced to give an acceptably low ripple voltage on the DC by the property of the capacitor. A very large value, often 1,000 micro farads or many times more, is needed to “smooth” the rectified waveform to “flat” DC.
必须是直流电. 大多数情况下直流电是从交流电通过变压器和整流器而来的. 经过整流后得到的是一个频率为交流电源两倍的单极波形. 但我们需要的是没有波形的电压,否则我们会听到交流电源频率两倍的声波,以及大量失真. 所以整流后必须通过电容,使之成为波纹很小的直流电压. 这种电容通常是容量很大的,比如1000微法甚至再大很多倍. 通过它才能得到平滑的直流电压.
Often in the precision circuits of preamplifiers the DC has to be far smoother, so a voltage regulator is placed after the large value capacitor.
在前级放大器的精密电路里,直流供电必须非常平滑,所以在大容量的电容之后必须有一个电压稳定器. Sometimes batteries are used instead. 有时会使用电池供电.
Whether battery or voltage regulator, each exhibit some output resistance which would steal power from the load. Enter the capacitor again - placed across the supply after the regulator, the charge on it makes the resistance tiny at audio signal frequencies.
不管是电池还是用电压稳定器,都会有一些输出电阻,从负载那里"偷走"一些功率. 再次使用电容——把电容放在电压稳定器之后,它的充电可以把输出电阻减小到微乎其微.
Now, the signal is a two wire thing too - the wire that carries the signal and the wire that carries its return. Remember, the minimum number of wires to make a circuit is two.
信号也是一个需要两根线的东西. 一根线传输信号,另一个线把它送回来. 记住,最少要两根线才能构成一个电路. The return wire in an audio circuit is called ground. Most people see ground as being the negative (usually) wire in a two wire supply (the middle wire in a three wire supply), but in actual fact the ground is both wires! (or all three in a three wire supply).
音响电路中负责送回信号的线叫做地线. 大多数把地线看成是那根负的线(通常如此),在三根线的电路中看成是中间的那根线. 但事实上两根线都是地线! (三根线的电路中则三根都是地线.)
The AC resistance (impedance) between the wires of a DC supply must be zero or as near as damn it. A short circuit would achieve this but then there’d be no power, just a blown fuse or a burnt offering…
直流供电里的两根线之间的阻抗必须是零,或者尽可能接近零. 当然用短路可以很容易做到,但那样就没有功率了,只有一根烧掉的保险丝 ...
How do you short the power rails together at signal frequencies but not at DC? Yes, a capacitor again!
那你如何把电源导轨在音频信号的频率,而不是直流时,短接到一起? 是的,还是靠电容! To get the high value of capacitance required and still have room in the case for the rest of the parts means using electrolytic capacitors. And because they connect the signal between the power rails, you have a case of electrolytic capacitors in the signal path – try doing it without them.
为了获得所需要的电容量,同时仍保有余量,必须使用电解电容. 由于它们是连接电源导轨之间的信号,于是我们是在信号通道里使用电解电容.
A lot of people who’ve been fed misinformation may detest this fact and argue against it, but all currents flow in circles – to make a light bulb work requires two wires to make the circuit, doesn’t it?
很多被误导的人会对此反感,并反对它. 但所有的电流都是循环运动的——难道不是吗?
The output of an amp is delivered to the load from the power rail(s) and then to ground. It then has to return to the power rail(s) to complete the other leg of the circuit. What through? The electrolytic capacitor!
放大器的输出从电源导轨被被传送到负载,然后送入接地. 然后必须再回到电源导轨,完成电路的另一半. 通过什么呢? 电解电容!
OK, you’ll have heard of bypassing, but that’s a smaller (film usually) capacitor which can’t do the bass end, and quite often doesn’t do the midrange either (depending on the impedance of the load). So the bass and some of the midrange of the signal flows in an electrolytic capacitor, period.
OK,你应该听过旁路电容吧? 那是一个较小的电容,通常是薄膜电容. 它不管低频,经常也不管中频(取决于负载的阻抗),所以低频和中频的一部分是通过电解电容的. 就是这样.
Yes, even if the input, output and negative feedback network are DC coupled. Sorry to upset the “all capacitors are sh*t” brigade, but they ought to try getting a proper education. Try doing it without these electrolytic capacitors and the signal will be far worse than sh*t.
是的,即使输入,输出和负反馈网络是直流耦合的. 很抱歉我不得不使那些认为"电容全部是垃圾"的人感觉不高兴了. 但他们确实应该多学一些. 你可以试试不用这些电解电容,但信号就会比垃圾更糟糕.
Why so long though 为什么那么长?
Just why does it take such a long time for a high performance (low signature – high musicality) piece of audio electronics to burn-in?
为什么一件高素质的音响器件(高素质的意思是: 低染色,高音乐性),需要那么长时间来煲机?
This is why my introduction has concentrated on the requirement for electrolytic capacitors.
这就是为什么我文章的前言部分重点讲了电解电容.
Although every component within a circuit has some burn-in time associated with it, by far the longest is that of the electrolytic capacitor. All electronic components comprise a junction or number of junctions between one substance and another. Before power is applied for the first time, these junctions that have been thrust together in the manufacturing process are in tight intimate contact with one another.
尽管电路里的每个器件都有各自的煲机所需时间,但需要时间最长的,是电解电容. 每一个音响器件内部都包含了一定数量的"结点",即一个物质和另一个物质连接的地方. 在电路第一次通电之前,这些在制造过程中被放在一起的"结点"是紧密地彼此接触的.
When power is applied current flows. Current flow exists because electrons flow (in the opposite direction). Electronic components are so designed that electrons can flow – the physics of each substance are such that an electron can escape the atom of one and join the atom of the next, apart from capacitors that is, which we’ll visit in more detail shortly.
当通电后,电流开始流动. 电流的流动是因为电子在流动(反方向流动). 电子原器件被设计成电子可以流动——每个物质的物理特性如此,所以电子可以逃离一个物质的原子,加入下一个物质的原子. 除了电容之外,关于电容我们待会再细说.
The arrangement of molecules and atoms before switch on is to an extent more haphazard than it becomes after switch on. Once switched on, these things start to move, rotate and generally sort themselves out into the correct order, and in the process of doing so generate a small amount of heat. Heat implies expansion and expansion requires “give”. I’ve heard many people talk about giving working parts time to relax in new things. Most of this “give” happens quickly – often within the first hour or two, and generally it is a one way process – once done, it is done.
在电路通电之前,分子和原子的安排,是比通电之后更为偶然和随机. 一旦通电,这些原子和分子开始活动,旋转,并按照正确的次序进行排列. 在这么做的过程里,会产生一小部分的热量. 热量意味着扩张,而扩张需要"给予". 很多人知道,要给在新的环境中工作的元件一定时间来放松. 这种"给予"大多数发生得很快,经常在头一两个小时之内. 通常这也是一种单向的现象. 也就是说,发生了就发生了,不会逆转.
Capacitors on the other hand don’t all possess this one way process. Much depends on the type of dielectric – the barrier between the plates that prevents DC current flow, but allows the back-forth AC electron behavior (AC current flow).
另一方面,电容不总是进行这样的单向程序. 要看电介质的类型,电介质也就是极板之间的阻挡物,是它阻挡了直流电流,但允许交流电通过.
Film capacitors (the ones that aren’t electrolytic) comprise in their simplest form, two plates isolated by an insulator. The insulator is the dielectric. The atoms of the plates cannot exchange electrons with the atoms of the dielectric preventing DC from flowing through the capacitor. In a real capacitor however, there will be some leakage, although in film capacitors it is extremely low, it clearly shows that there isn’t such a thing as a perfect insulator, because the odd electron makes the journey through.
薄膜电容(不是电解电容)包含有两个极板,中间由绝缘物(电介质)分开. 极板上的原子不能与电介质的原子交换电子,这样就阻挡了直流电穿过电容. 但在一个真正的电容里,肯定会有一些微小的泄漏,当然薄膜电容的泄漏是很低的,但当然也不存在完美的绝缘体这么一个东西,会有个别的电子能完成穿越.
As electrons “push and pull” against each other, the junction between conductor and insulator – between plate and dielectric, will obviously result in some miniscule erosion at the junctions. The intimate contact of the manufacturing process is adjusted by nature to what nature decides. This process will be over and done within hours to a few days – maybe up to a week. As film capacitors tend to be used for the mid to higher frequencies then the upper end of the audio spectrum should start to sound more real within this time, and because we can retain in our memories the things that have happened in the recent past quite well, and further because our hearing is more sensitive to the mid frequencies, we can detect a change in the sound over this “first” period.
当电子们彼此推搡时,导体和绝缘体之间的"结点"——在极板和电介质之间,会造成一些微小的侵蚀. 制造过程中造成的亲密接触,会自然而然地调整,这是自然决定的. 这个过程在起初通电后的几小时到几天内完成. 最多也许一周. 由于薄膜电容更多是用于中高频信号,这段时间之后,音频信号的中高频部分会听起来更为自然. 我们的耳朵对中频信号的变化更为敏感,而且因为这个过程发生在一个较段时期内,所以我们一般可以感觉到这个"最初时期"声音的改变.
And now the electrolytic 现在说说电解电容
People are prone to imagine all sorts of things and then to provide an argument to substantiate what they’ve imagined.
人类的习惯是先想象出一个东西,然后为这个想象出来的结论提供证据,以证明之.
Therefore I have gone to great lengths to study and research electrolytic capacitors from a burn-in perspective.
因此我花了很长时间来研究电解电容的特性,从煲机的角度.
An electrolytic capacitor is again two metal plates separated by some insulation. To obtain the large values of capacitance the plates are large in surface area and comprise long lengths of metal foil which are ultimately rolled up into the typical cylindrical shape of the electrolytic.
一个电解电容也是两片金属极板之间被一些绝缘体分隔开来. 为了获得较大的电容量,两块极板的表面积必须足够大,包含较长长度的金属箔,卷成圆柱状.
The electrolytic is assisted by the property of a battery in that large amounts of charge can be stored by the addition of an electrolyte (hence the name).
The electrolytic capacitor therefore comprises an anode plate – a foil that is coated in a dielectric (an insulator), the electrolyte – in its simplest terms: a salt in aqueous (water) solution, and the cathode – the other foil which isn’t coated. To distribute the electrolyte along the full length and width of the foils it is soaked into “separator” paper, and the whole assembly is tightly rolled-up inside the canister.
电解电容能储存电量,和电池类似,是靠了电解液(所以叫这个名字). 因此电解电容包含一个阳极板,这是一个被绝缘体包裹着的金属箔,包含电解液,其最简化的形式是盐水,还包含一个阴极,这是另一个没有包裹绝缘体的金属箔. 为了使电解液能分布满金属箔的长和宽,电解液浸在"隔板纸"中. 整个东西被紧密地卷装入电容的外壳.
The dielectric coating is what makes the capacitor do its job. The dielectric in an electrolytic capacitor is aluminium oxide, which is like the anodizing you see on a front panel, except that in the electrolytic capacitor it has not been “sealed” and is therefore not stable like the coating on a front panel.
电介质包裹层是使得电容能工作的重要之物. 电解电容中的电介质是氧化铝. 就象你经常在机器前面板上看到的那种物质. 一个区别是,在电解电容中,它没有被"密封",因此并不是稳定的.
The aluminium oxide is grown onto the aluminium foil by the process of anodizing large sheets of foil. These foils are then slit to the size required for each capacitor, and the manufacturing process is continued to form the finished product. Before the end of production the manufacturer applies voltage treatment to grow the aluminium oxide to the correct depth to give the required capacitance and dielectric properties.
氧化铝通过氧化处理放到金属铝箔的表面. 这些金属箔被切割成所需要的尺寸,制造过程继续进行,直至一个成品问世. 在生产过程结束前,制造商给电容加一些电压,使得表面的氧化铝形成正确的厚度,这样电容就能有设计的容量和介电特性.
The electrolytic capacitor relies on charge to maintain its aluminium oxide dielectric. Without charge the dielectric decomposes over time.
电解电容依赖于充电以维持其氧化铝的介电特性. 如果长时间不充电,其电介质会分解.
When placed in a circuit – for example between the power rails as we discussed in the introduction to this article, the capacitor is charged by this voltage. Because it stores this charge, it will release energy when there is no charge being received by it, and it will receive energy when it is under charge.
当被放入一个电路时,比方置于电源导轨之间,电容被电源的电压所充电. 因为它能储存这种电荷,它能在不接受到电荷时,释放出能量; 同时它也能通过充电接受能量.
Therefore it can be seen that it will “smooth” the “twice mains frequency DC” into a near constant DC voltage.
因此它可以把"两倍于电源频率的直流电"进行"平滑化处理",成为一个接近恒定的直流电.
It also conducts the signal (It doesn’t conduct DC), and is often used at other points in a circuit where the signal needs to travel between two different DC voltages.
同时它也能引导信号(但不引导直流电),它也经常被用在电路里的信号需要跨越两个不同直流电压之间的地方.
Because of the difference of DC voltage across it, it maintains its charge which in turn maintains its dielectric layer. And this is the key that answers the long burn-in question.
由于有电压穿过电容,电容能维持其充电特性,从而维持其电介质层. 这就是回答煲机问题的关键所在.
Mass production? 批量制造?
One of the virtues of mass production, especially when coupled with JIT (Japanese Just In Time) inventory control, is that all components are delivered “fresh” to the manufacturer. The very description “mass production” implies mass demand, and so the manufactured goods are quickly sold, and between component manufacture and the time of first use perhaps only a few months have passed.
批量制造的一个好处是(特别是和日本Just In Time库存管理法相结合时), 所有的部件被送到制造厂时,都是新鲜的. 批量制造的含义,是有批量的需求. 所以制造出的产品很快就能卖掉,在元器件被制造出来的时间,和成品被第一次使用的时间,也许只间隔几个月.
Therefore any electrolytic capacitors within the product will still have a near perfect dielectric layer.
因此产品里所包含的电解电容仍有一个接近完美状态的电介质层.
Now take the system we have in the UK of supply to small manufacturers (which is probably similar in Europe and the United States). Small manufacturers buy from component distributors – often big ones that specialize in supplying thousands of small enterprises.
现在谈一下在英国的情况,也许还有欧洲和美国因为那里的情况类似,在英国,元器件是供应给较小的制造厂. 小制造厂购买元器件是从元器件的代理商那里. 这些代理商通常为数以千计的小企业供货.
They buy in stock occasionally and when they buy, it is in extremely large quantities for the purpose of making a large profit. This stock can lay around in warehouses for several months, or in the case of the Elna Starget audio electrolytic capacitor RS Components of Corby, England used to stock, several years (I knew this because Elna UK told me so).
他们有时会大量购买,当购买的时候,数量都非常庞大. 这些购入的元器件然后会在仓库里放几个月,也许更长到几年,比如Elna Starget音频电解电容就是如此. (我知道这点,因为Elna英国分公司的人这么告诉我.)
Even if the small equipment manufacturer buys a special batch of electrolytics through a distributor, in which case they are “fresh” upon delivery, the batch will be a rather big one to be able to obtain a sensible price (minimum order quantities apply). The usage rate will be slow, and the storage time long.
即使小制造厂通过代理商购入一批特别的订货,交货时元器件还很新鲜,这样一批特别订货必须规模较大,这样才能做到合理的售价(必须达到最低订货数量). 因此它的使用率会较低,储存时间会较长.
In either case, the electrolytic capacitors in any piece of equipment made by any small enterprise will have had their dielectric layers decompose more than those inside a mass produced item.
不管何种情况,小厂生产的任何器材内的电解电容,其电介质层会分解得更多一些,比那些大量生产的产品内的电容,程度要甚之.
But as mentioned above, voltage treatment (it used to be called re-forming in the valve days) will restore the dielectric layer to as good as new. However, voltage forming in a capacitor factory and voltage forming in a small enterprise are two different things. In the capacitor factory a machine handles voltage forming. Such a machine has a throughput of thousands per hour (doing several at a time). It takes a full hour to voltage treat an electrolytic capacitor - you can’t do it faster because if you did, the dielectric layer would be damaged. We, like many other small enterprises, would need to voltage treat about 100 per hour. Not being able to fund the capitol investment required for a bespoke voltage treatment machine, we, like the rest, simply cannot perform this function without substantially increasing the prices of our products.
但正如前提及,电压处理(胆机时代被称作"Re-forming")可以使电介质层恢复新产品时的状态. 然而,电容制造厂内的电压处理,和小制造厂内的电压处理,是两回事. 在电容制造厂内,有一台机器来处理此事,这样的机器每小时的处理量是几千个电容(几个电容一起处理). 对一个电解电容进行电压处理要耗时整整一小时. 你无法加快这个过程,因为过快的话电介质层会被破坏. 我们厂,就象其他小制造厂一样,每小时需要处理100个电容. 由于我们不可能去购买那个大量处理电容的机器,所以就象其他所有小厂一样,唯有相应提高我们产品的价格,方能对电容进行这样的处理.
Now even if we, and other similarly sized enterprises, did voltage treat every electrolytic capacitor, the dielectric layer starts to decompose again the moment the voltage treatment stops, until the equipment gets switched-on and the capacitors receive charge in their normal course of usage. There is no way we can know how long a product will stay on the shelves of our distributors and dealers. Our turnover is good for the size we are, but the demand for our products isn’t the size of Apple’s.
即使我们对电解电容进行了这样的电压处理,电介质层还是会再次开始分解(电压处理一结束),直至其成品被通电使用,电容接受充电,进行正常使用. 没有办法去了解我们的产品会在经销商的仓库,展架上放多久才会被购买使用. 就我们的公司规模来说目前的生产量是好的,但对我们产品的需求不可能是苹果电脑那种级别的.
Therefore, when you receive your Graham Slee phono preamp or headphone amp, the voltage treatment of the electrolytic capacitors it contains begins from the moment of switch on.
因此,当你拿到一台Graham Slee的唱头放大器或耳机放大器,第一次使用时,对其内部的电解电容的电压处理就开始了.
How long will this take? Well, as I said above, in the factory it would take one hour using the prescribed technique (see the Rubycon reference below for details), but few capacitors in a real circuit are exposed to the right conditions. Power supply capacitors should, one would think, re-form instantly, but more decomposition to the oxide layer is done at switch on due to the lack of a controlled charging current – it’s up to voltage in a flash and at full ripple current.
这个过程要多久? 我前面说了,在工厂内大概是一个小时(采用工厂的电压处理程序). 但一个现实电路里的电容很少是处于最合适的条件. 有些会觉得,电源供应部分的电容应该会立即Re-form. 但由于缺乏受控制的充电电流,开机时会发生进一步的氧化层分解. 这取决于一刹那的,全波电流时的电压.
Electrolytic capacitors elsewhere in the circuit may not have sufficient charging current to be re-formed within the hour. In fact it can take days if not weeks for the tiny trickle of current dictated by the circuit’s operation to reach the specification dielectric.
电路中其他部分的电解电容未必有足够的充电电流在一个小时之内完成Re-forming. 实际上可能耗费几天,甚至几个星期,才能使电容达到设计的介电性能.
This description may be leading many to wonder if they’ve been buying scrap? But the picture isn’t that bad. The capacitors are generally OK from a correct (or near correct) value point of view. It’s just that the quality of dielectric is wanting at switch on. The quality of dielectric affects the leakage performance, and although the circuit will function correctly, by which I mean it will establish the correct voltages, the sound quality at switch on clearly isn't that which the product gives after a number of weeks use.
上述描述可能会使很多人开始想,他们买的产品是否垃圾? 但并不象那么糟糕. 从正确的价值观角度来看,电容一般来说是OK的. 只不过电介质的质量需要开机来进一步提高. 电介质的质量会影响电容的泄漏性能. 尽管电路正确运行,也就是说电压正确,一台机器刚开声时的声音,是肯定不如产品被使用几周之后的声音.
Therefore a piece of high performance hand built equipment simply will not sound as intended at first. It may not sound as intended for a number of weeks. The sound can go through changes as one capacitor comes on-stream while the others are still getting there.
因此一件手工制造的高性能器材在刚开声时的表现,是不如它被设计成能发出的音质. 可能几个星期都无法达到设计的音质. 声音可能会随着一些电容的变化而变化,而电容的变化是逐个的.
And when it’s switched off? Even for a short time there will be some decomposition of electrolytic capacitor dielectric because of the lack of charging voltage. However, it should not take anywhere as long to return to the burned-in performance level. But where equipment is stored for a year or two...
当机器被关掉时呢? 即使关闭的时间不长,也会发生一些电介质分解,因为充电电压没有了. 然而重新开机后电容能较快恢复状态. 不过如果一个产品被储存了一年或两年(未用) ... 情况就不同了.
先坐沙发 本帖最后由 张逢康 于 2010-5-20 19:19 编辑
先坐沙发
柯南 发表于 2010-5-20 13:52 http://www.zghifi.com/images/common/back.gif
你的动作比我还快！你先坐着，我去拿桂花酒！ 嫦娥不算最孤独，
她有玉兔吴刚桂花树。 我去百度了一下,好多关于月亮的话题呀!呵呵,大力支持!:lol 欣赏、支持！ 欣赏！支持朋友！ 嫦娥不算最孤独，
她有玉兔吴刚桂花树。
柯南 发表于 2010-5-20 13:55 http://www.zghifi.com/images/common/back.gif
那谁比嫦娥更孤独？谢谢柯南的支持！ 我去百度了一下,好多关于月亮的话题呀!呵呵,大力支持!
hifi007 发表于 2010-5-20 15:04 http://www.zghifi.com/images/common/back.gif
你真的去百度月亮了！我也要去百度一下月亮到底怎么说的！谢谢007的支持！ 欣赏、支持！
那永恒 发表于 2010-5-20 15:24 http://www.zghifi.com/images/common/back.gif
谢谢那老师的欣赏支持！ 欣赏！支持朋友！
yinxiang699 发表于 2010-5-20 18:31 http://www.zghifi.com/images/common/back.gif
谢谢yinxiang699的支持！ 好词！！！！支持！！！！！ 我去百度了一下,好多关于月亮的话题呀!呵呵,大力支持!
hifi007 发表于 2010-5-20 15:04 http://www.zghifi.com/images/common/back.gif
神话 吴刚折桂传说：相传月亮上的广寒宫前的桂树生长繁茂，有五百多丈高，下边有一个人常在砍伐它，但是每次砍下去之后，被砍的地方又立即合拢了。几千年来，就这样随砍随合。这个砍树的人名叫吴刚，是汉朝西河人，曾跟随仙人修道，到了天界，但是他犯了错误，他就被贬到月宫，做这种徒劳无功的苦差使。
嫦娥奔月传说：嫦娥和后羿为百姓立下了汗马功劳，西王母将给夫妻两人一粒仙丹，后羿不愿离开妻子，就把仙丹收了起来。不料后羿的徒弟逢蒙知道了这件事，趁后羿出去时威逼嫦娥拿出仙药，嫦娥无奈，情急之下自己吞了仙丹，就飘飘悠悠地飞上天了。
我也去百度了一下，月亮的话题真的不少！ 学习来拉！支持！:victory::victory: 好词！！！！支持！！！！！
hifi771 发表于 2010-5-20 19:37 http://www.zghifi.com/images/common/back.gif
你也来个百度蜗牛吧！说不定也挺好玩的！谢谢支持！
hificms 发表于 2010-5-20 19:28 http://www.zghifi.com/images/common/back.gif
谢谢朋友的支持！ 学习来拉！支持！
shuangshitian 发表于 2010-5-20 19:41 http://www.zghifi.com/images/common/back.gif
谢谢车老师的支持！鼓励！ 写得很有意境，支持！ 回复 9# 张逢康
肯定会说,对不起你百度的月亮被007扛走了,请你百度太阳试一下,谢谢合作!:lol 回复 1# 张逢康
欣赏佳作:victory: 回复 14# 张逢康
呵呵,如果传说是真的就好了,那这个世界该有多么好玩!;P 张哥俺不想百度俺就想你陪俺去月亮上去看看嫦娥 好词！欣赏、支持，问好！ 神话 传说：相传月亮上的前的桂树生长繁茂，有五百多丈高，下边有一个人常在砍伐它，但是每次砍 ...
张逢康 发表于 2010-5-20 19:41 http://www.zghifi.com/images/common/back.gif
:victory: :victory: